Episode #204:
Jody Guetter, CEO at finmarkIQ, explains why AI‑era marketing must include real people at every stage. She argues that the human-in-the-loop extends beyond data validation to market testing, focus groups, and brand activation. Jody also shows how CMOs must be technologists without forgetting who they serve and outlines how human touch differentiates B2B strategies in an age of automation.
“Today’s CMOs must embrace technology and data without neglecting who we do the work for, which are the actual people we serve.” – Jody Guetter
In this in‑depth conversation, Jody examines how B2B CMOs can integrate human‑centered strategies into AI‑driven go‑to‑market plans. Drawing on her pivot from luxury retail to fintech, she outlines how marketers must balance rapid data insights with empathetic market testing, focus groups, and brand activation. Jody shares real‑world examples of how human feedback de‑risks significant investments, accelerates adoption, and strengthens trust in both internal stakeholders and end customers, ultimately driving ROI and sustainable growth.
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[Transcript]
[00:00:00] Steve MacDonald: Welcome everyone to the C‑Suite Sales and Marketing Perspectives podcast. I’m Steve MacDonald, your host, and today we have a very interesting guest on with Jody Guetter. Now, Jody, you are not only a former B2B CMO who has done tons of work in the fractional space and run your own fractional business, you’re also a SaaS expert—but what’s interesting is you’re a farm girl too. I’d love for you to explain how you balance farming with technology and FinTech, and then we’ll dive into today’s topic: the immersive human-in-the-loop strategy and why it matters.
[00:00:25] Steve MacDonald: You’re a farm girl too. Please tell us more about how that all works—the balance of farming, technology, and FinTech—and then share a bit of your background before we get into The Immersive human-in-the-loop Strategy.
[00:00:48] Jody Guetter: Yeah, really excited. It’s such a joy to spend time with you, Steve, and to have this conversation. To add context on why I’m here and what we’ll discuss: I’m a marketing strategist—aging myself about 20 years now. I started my career back home in Australia. I’m an expat in marketing and strategy and worked in the retail sector for luxury and prestige brands. In those early days I focused on market planning and market research when retail stores were still a big thing.
[00:01:29] Jody Guetter: I supported retail outlets in identifying new and emerging markets, which evolved into broader planning and strategy. I’ve always been very numbers‑driven and data‑focused, with a strong emphasis on audience. In the latter half—and the vast majority—of my career, I’ve been in financial services, on both the banking side and the technology side. That’s where the B2B SaaS aspects of my experience come in. And yes, I am now a farm girl—reluctantly at first, but it’s very much part of my DNA.
[00:02:16] Jody Guetter: I get really excited about agriculture and the emerging opportunities around data. Farming’s cyclical nature is challenging—dependent on mother nature—so I’m passionate about how technology, especially financial technology and AG tech, can help make farming more efficient and effective. My goal is for multi‑generational farmers to still be farming a hundred years from now, leveraging different tools in their toolbox.
[00:03:24] Steve MacDonald: Let’s tap into that expertise. What does human-in-the-loop mean to you in modern B2B go‑to‑market strategies, and why is it important to our overall marketing approach?
[00:03:48] Jody Guetter: Great question. With the emphasis around generative AI in recent years—how democratized and accessible it has become—you hear “human-in-the-loop” more and more. In an AI context, it often means validating data or prompt engineering, which is a narrow focus. What I emphasize in the B2B SaaS and technology space is that marketing spans product, sales, delivery, implementation, and beyond. Every stage has human touch points.
[00:05:04] Jody Guetter: Research and development isn’t just a product function; there’s a human-in-the-loop. Messaging and branding aren’t just about a siloed marketer copywriting; we need market validation, focus groups, and brand activation. How are we creating brand advocates internally and among our clients? CMOs today must be technologists, but we cannot neglect who we do the work for. It’s easy for marketers to overinvest in tools and technology and overlook the people they serve.
[00:06:15] Steve MacDonald: We have more data than ever, and it’s only increasing. It’s easy to hide behind data and spend all day analyzing it, which we must do—but the human-in-the-loop doesn’t come automatically. Those insights come from one‑on‑one, personal, intimate conversations. We already have 150 percent of our tasks in a day, so by default we lean on data. What I’m hearing from you is we need data, but we must work hard to insert the human-in-the-loop. We remember things 23 times more when we hear them as stories.
[00:07:24] Steve MacDonald: This is a Harvard Business Review study. When we hear things in the form of a story, do you have a story where human-in-the-loop—a conversation you had with a customer or a piece of feedback from the voice of the customer—made a difference that the data could never tell?
[00:07:47] Jody Guetter: Yeah, that’s a great question—you’re spot on. One example I’d share relates to the vast amount of data available and the capital investments organizations make in technology to mine that data efficiently. There’s been an imbalance where efficiency and speed become the CEO’s or CFO’s priority—“How are we accelerating pipeline velocity? How are we speeding go‑to‑market?” The challenge is balancing data‑driven decisions with creativity and empathy—inherently human qualities.
[00:08:37] Jody Guetter: As marketers, we need to counterbalance by allowing time and space for the creative process. For instance, we built a brand and a ground‑up business strategy to target a specific audience. We conducted extensive desk research, beta product testing, and used tools like Vertical IQ and GWI to understand the addressable market, the serviceable market, where they live, their psychographics and demographics. With all that data, we conceptualized brand positioning and messaging pillars we believed would resonate.
[00:09:49] Jody Guetter: The audiences we served spanned all walks of life—just because they were police officers or firemen didn’t mean they were all 20‑ to 25‑year‑old white men. They were complex human beings with varied emotional drivers behind their purchasing decisions. So after months of data‑informed development, we put the brand in front of first responders and police officers to get their firsthand feedback: “Does this make sense to you? Are we speaking your language? Are we showing up in an authentic way that drives an emotional connection to your community, not just a transactional one?”
[00:11:12] Jody Guetter: That moment in our development journey forced us to ask: Are we putting humans at the center of what we’re doing, or are we making decisions based on ego—what looks good or feels good to us? It pressure‑tested and validated critical elements, built our confidence, and allowed us to make corrections before further investment. Even basic details—like whether the photography and imagery matched the right vehicles or uniform styles—were caught. Those are easy to overlook but matter deeply to the people we serve.
[00:12:01] Jody Guetter: It’s so easy to overlook, but the human-in-the-loop—the people we’re really trying to serve—matter most. From a client perspective, this feedback allowed us to de‑risk their investments. They were making huge financial commitments, and we could say, “Hey, we’ve validated our approach, made adjustments, and identified significant use cases to go to market with.”
[00:12:21] Jody Guetter: We collected even more qualitative and quantitative data throughout the journey to inform the next phase of growth. This incremental innovation ensured we made the right decisions at the right time and ultimately put our best product forward.
[00:12:55] Steve MacDonald: I love that. So one of the most critical sell‑through features—because you’re always selling, whether it’s to the board, your CRO, your CEO, or your client—you’re constantly pitching. Having the voice of the customer—the human-in-the-loop—as part of that gives everyone confidence that, “Okay, this is going to work. You’ve actually talked to real people.”
[00:13:24] Steve MacDonald: In a world of short‑term wins—your CRO has a quota over their head, the CEO knows that at the next board meeting one of the top questions will be, “How’s this quarter going? How’s next quarter look?” Nobody’s asking, “How’s that human-in-the-loop program performing?” or “How are those brand pillars doing?” We live in a world of short‑term returns.
[00:13:48] Steve MacDonald: Here’s my question: I don’t believe human-in-the-loop slows us down. In fact, it accelerates us because we sell with greater confidence, knowing we’re moving in the right direction.
[00:14:14] Jody Guetter: Right? Yeah.
[00:14:14] Steve MacDonald: That ultimately saves us tons of time. If we have a program where human-in-the-loop is embedded all along, what happens? Does human-in-the-loop slow down a process when everyone—especially CMOs—is traveling at the speed of quota with a short‑term focus?
[00:14:36] Jody Guetter: It feels counterintuitive, but I tell my team—and I agree with you a hundred percent—that sometimes we need to slow down to speed up. What feels like slowing down actually accelerates progress. A great example is ABM, or account‑based marketing, which can be highly successful when done right for B2B marketers.
[00:15:09] Jody Guetter: To make ABM work, you need absolute CRO buy‑in and alignment, and you must integrate your sales team—your BDRs—and the human-in-the-loop from the sales side. You need to market the marketing to your CRO and sales team: campaign the strategy with them so they’re bought in, enabled, and trained. Then you can activate the strategy efficiently and effectively.
[00:16:02] Jody Guetter: Too often, marketers rush to market because speed is prized, but they haven’t done the campaigning or enablement. Execution then falls short, and you don’t get the results you need. That’s a perfect B2B example of why human-in-the-loop must be integrated before you hit the field.
[00:16:35] Steve MacDonald: There’s a second reason we need human-in-the-loop, which we’ve discussed before: validating our direction and ensuring we have full confidence in our approach.
[00:16:45] Steve MacDonald: Absolutely. The other is trust. In an ABM‑focused world where one‑on‑one relationships with prospects are vital, trust is declining. Our brands should be trust marks, but according to the LinkedIn Edelman Trust Index, trust in business leaders has dropped for decades. In the latest survey of 32,000 respondents, 61 percent said they worry that business leaders intentionally mislead them.
[00:17:34] Steve MacDonald: Another study found that buyers trust their peers as much as they trust scientists—yet we sit at the bottom of that totem pole as the selling organization with skin in the game, often accused of misleading. Bringing the voice of the customer—the human-in-the-loop—into our go‑to‑market strategy not only validates direction but builds trust.
[00:18:27] Steve MacDonald: Especially in the financial industry, where there are countless checks and balances, human-in-the-loop is crucial for building credibility. How important is human-in-the-loop for establishing that trust?
[00:18:46] Jody Guetter: You’re spot on, and I’m glad you shared those stats. Even general consumer sentiment—particularly around generative AI—has shifted. I know marketers and technologists have been using AI in various forms for years, but the widespread exposure to generative AI tools has introduced new challenges.
[00:19:05] Jody Guetter: We now see deep fakes regularly. Consumers are reckoning with them, and as marketers, we bear responsibility for how data is used, how representations are made, and for the biases inherent in many of these models. That distrust is greater than ever before.
[00:19:32] Jody Guetter: As marketers, we must own our role in data governance and the responsible use of AI so that trust isn’t broken. That trust has two parts. Internally: Are we building ethical, transparent programs our employees understand and support, using only approved tools and respecting privacy and confidentiality? Externally: Are we transparent with clients about our tool usage—labeling “This image was generated using AI” or “This FAQ was produced with generative AI”? That level of transparency strengthens trust.
[00:21:15] Steve MacDonald: Right.
[00:21:33] Jody Guetter: It’s an opportune time to remap the buying and customer journey now that so many tools exist. Do you truly understand every touch point? Do you know where trust could fracture? Are you inserting a human-in-the-loop at key moments to mitigate risk and prevent trust from being broken?
[00:22:00] Jody Guetter: A great example is on the small‑business side of financial services. The digitization of the customer experience has accelerated—especially post-COVID—but opening a small-business account remains a stringent process. Customers must navigate ownership rules and decide whether they need an EIN. We discovered our digital onboarding was confusing and caused many small‑business owners to drop out before entering the funnel. We were doing a disservice to the people we wanted to serve, making it harder to access capital.
[00:23:18] Jody Guetter: So we introduced a human-in-the-loop. The core remains digital onboarding, but we added a concierge call before users begin. That consultation clarifies the requirements, ensuring a seamless subsequent digital process. Then we assign a relationship manager for post‑onboarding engagement. It shows that while technology can be effective, specific scenarios require a human-in-the-loop to optimize the overall experience.
[00:24:07] Steve MacDonald: When you think about it, there’s not one part of the go‑to‑market strategy—including onboarding, loyalty, tracking NRR, and beyond—where human-in-the-loop isn’t essential. We had a three‑time B2B CMO on this podcast who said, “Steve, everything we do led by the voice of the customer performs better.” One stat I recall: poor customer experience has put $3.7 trillion in play. I’m not sure if you’ve seen that study.
[00:24:49] Steve MacDonald: It came out from Qualtrics just over a year ago, and it’s unbelievable. The impact of incorporating a human into the loop for conversion and onboarding processes is substantial.
[00:25:08] Steve MacDonald: You mentioned internal relationships with human-in-the-loop earlier. One of the biggest challenges in the C‑Suite today is internal alignment.
[00:25:20] Steve MacDonald: I’ve had so many CMOs on this podcast say two things: “I have imposter syndrome, and I don’t feel like I have a seat at the table—I’m only as good as the last set of leads I brought in, even though I’m supposed to be so pipeline‑focused.” But when you represent the voice of the customer—the human-in-the-loop—you become the highest authority in the business. In a B2B organization, very few of us have a Chief Customer Officer. No one is explicitly owning the voice of the customer.
[00:25:50] Steve MacDonald: You could be that person—helping in product development, sales, operations, customer success. Suddenly, that seat at the table is yours to take. Every time you look in any direction, that human-in-the-loop is critical.
[00:26:34] Jody Guetter: I see so many good marketers get tunnel vision about earning a seat at the table. You see it at every conference—“How to earn a seat at the table,” “How to turn your marketing team from executional to strategic.” But we get so focused on the seat that we neglect how to earn it.
[00:27:00] Jody Guetter: Today’s marketer sits at the intersection of the voice of the customer, sales, product, and technology—even culture, human resources, and executive management. Are we maximizing the opportunity to bring data forward—customer usage, adoption rates, new opportunities—and then presenting those insights to the executive team with actionable ideas?
[00:28:02] Jody Guetter: Here’s a simple example, courtesy of Kat Cole, former CMO of that pretzel company in every mall. She placed a clipboard in every store asking, “What made your job hard today?” Employees logged friction points. I did the same at a bank, uncovering opportunities—training gaps, cultural issues, process flaws—that directly affected customers.
[00:29:06] Jody Guetter: Those are simple but powerful human-in-the-loop actions: reach out, gather feedback, and then present it to your C‑EO or C‑RO: “Did you know it takes 20 minutes to close out at day’s end? People are staying late because of this process.” That demonstrates you’re thinking about the business differently and driving strategies to service and grow clients.
[00:30:06] Steve MacDonald: I wish we could go on for hours—I’m loving this. We’ve covered so much. If you had less than a minute to give our C‑Suite audience one key takeaway, what would it be?
[00:30:32] Jody Guetter: Always ask yourself: Who are we doing the work for? It’s simple, but ego often gets in the way. With the adoption of technology and the use of data, we must humanize the data and innovate with empathy. I believe that’s why more CMOs are becoming CEOs—empathetic leadership grounded in truly knowing who you serve.
[00:31:39] Steve MacDonald: I love it. Thank you. This podcast offers diverse perspectives, allowing us to learn from one another and lift each other up, much like a rising tide. You’ve been an important part of that tide today—thank you.
[00:32:03] Jody Guetter: Thank you, Steve. It’s always a pleasure to share my perspective and meet great people like you. I’m happy to get on my soapbox any time—let’s do this again soon.