Episode #232:
Paul Taylor, Chief Marketing Officer and Senior Vice President at SS&C Blue Prism, explains why handoffs break buyer trust and conversion. He describes orchestration across marketing, sales, and success. He urges leadership to set one revenue story. He demonstrates how alignment enhances win rates and reduces churn.
“The winners aren’t necessarily those that are generating the most leads. They’re the ones that are converting the right ones into lasting customers.” – Paul Taylor
This episode explores why conversion, not volume, is the ultimate growth differentiator. Paul shares how aligning leadership on a single revenue story transforms business culture, eliminates silos, and strengthens long-term customer relationships.
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[Transcript]
[00:00:05] Steve MacDonald: Welcome everyone to the C-Suite Sales and Marketing Perspectives podcast. I’m Steve MacDonald, your host, and today we have on Paul Taylor, and we have a conversation that we all need to have, but we haven’t quite had in the way that we’re gonna do it today. Paul, you’re gonna help us talk about, you’re a Chief Marketing Officer.
[00:00:22] Steve MacDonald: But you’ve been not only in marketing, you’ve been in sales, you’ve been in product, you’re a 16-year B2B SaaS automation expert. You’ve seen and done it all, and we’re gonna talk today about how we’re more focused on conversion, right? We tend to get very focused on the creation of the MQL or the SQL, and that’s the hardest part yet.
[00:00:46] Steve MacDonald: 80% of the battle is on conversion, right? And getting to that closed win ratio. And so we’re gonna talk about our roles in that, but how do we—it’s not just us, it’s a coordinated effort internally. But the mindset that we need to be taking on in order to get that done. And I have to ask, and I have to have you explain, there’s a big story behind that artwork on the wall behind you that actually ties into this whole conversation.
[00:01:13] Steve MacDonald: So I’d love to maybe just have you expand a little bit more on your background, and then we’ll dig right in.
[00:01:17] Paul Taylor: Yeah. Great. Thanks, Steve, and thanks for inviting me along. So the picture, yes, there’s a technology thing that sits behind that picture, and I don’t mean that it’s on a screen and it’s playing out in the background, but during COVID there was a pretty famous artist in the UK called Damien Hirst, who decided that he was gonna launch a digital art series. So effectively at that time it was an NFT token. If everyone can remember that craze that came along—sort of secure contracts and secure coded files in an Ethereum network.
[00:01:49] Paul Taylor: He launched this project that basically tried to test the market in terms of whether digital art was gonna have more value than physical art in the long-term future. And so he gave holders, gave owners the decision to make over the course of a year in terms of whether they wanted to keep that digital file, that NFT, or whether they wanted to convert that NFT into a physical painting.
[00:02:09] Paul Taylor: And the interesting thing was that actually when people chose the digital file, he physically set light to the piece of paper that artwork was drawn on. Fascinating period of time, obviously a big craze. And we’re in the middle of an AI craze at the moment.
[00:02:24] Paul Taylor: So I guess that’s the link back to tech and SaaS and all of those different things, but it gives you a great story in there.
[00:02:30] Steve MacDonald: We’re all good storytellers, right? So here’s what I wanna do on this kind of conversion path, especially as CMOs. We know we’re supposed to be very pipeline-driven, right?
[00:02:39] Steve MacDonald: Very driven on conversion, right? We gotta be deep inside of our Salesforce or HubSpot CRM and working and helping with deals in every way that we can. But your point of view is that the handoff between marketing and sales is broken and that there really actually shouldn’t be a handoff.
[00:02:59] Steve MacDonald: There shouldn’t be a baton pass like, “I’m done now, you run the race.” I’d love to get your thoughts on this just to get us started out here.
[00:03:09] Paul Taylor: Perfect. Yeah, I think the upshot here really is that it should be a team sport, especially as marketing funnels and the way that they operate and customer buying journeys have just completely been turned on their head, I think, over the last few quarters.
[00:03:22] Paul Taylor: But I think that the brutal truth really to the whole thing is that most companies don’t really have a lead problem. They have that conversion problem. And whilst marketing’s job, as you said, is to tee up the interest, to get people into a journey, very often the seller that might pick that up, or the SDR that might pick that up, all they really see is a snippet of the information, a snippet of the journey,
[00:03:42] Paul Taylor: within a CRM system, within a spreadsheet, within some form of documentation. And I think the real question really, as marketers, isn’t necessarily how do we get more leads in that funnel? It’s about how do we traverse that buying journey that a customer is going through? And how do we turn the conversations and the journeys that we do have into conversations that actually close? I think from a marketing perspective, you can spend an awful lot of time talking about pipeline and SQLs and then be completely stumped by something that doesn’t close down at the kind of end of the flow. And I think that’s really because this whole handoff—
[00:04:17] Paul Taylor: I would say it’s an illusion, really. I don’t think your job is done when you pass the baton. And these handoffs don’t exist in a buyer or in a customer’s mind. Like they don’t experience departments. They don’t experience marketing and sales, and then customer success,
[00:04:33] Paul Taylor: and then support. They just experience that one brand. And I think the moment you start getting too deep into handing things off and division of labor, which is a centuries-old kind of concept that really has to change, the buyer then starts to feel the cracks and starts to experience something different than perhaps the intent you set off with.
[00:04:53] Paul Taylor: So, you know, that’s really where I’m coming from is this kind of concept that this funnel is now changing and that we should really be changing with the times and meeting people where they are on that journey.
[00:05:04] Steve MacDonald: So I love the analogy of a team sport, right? There has to be accountability, there have to be responsibilities, right?
[00:05:12] Steve MacDonald: We can’t move a hundred percent away, but you’ve got a way of thinking about this, right? And I think you talked about this orchestration versus silos, and I’d love to just get your thought process on that because we’re all agreeing 100% with what you’re saying right now, and we’re all waiting for, “Okay, how do we do this?”
[00:05:33] Steve MacDonald: How do we orchestrate this? How do we come together more as a team? ‘Cause I’ll put one underlying thread underneath this. The number one challenge that B2B C-Suite executives say that they face in their companies is misalignment. Internal misalignment. So that’s gotta be the underlying kind of thread when we’re talking about this, right?
[00:05:55] Steve MacDonald: Because you’re talking about bringing everybody into alignment. That’s what the definition of a team sport really is, right? So, anyways, little bit of setup there, but I’d love to hear your idea of this orchestration strategy.
[00:06:08] Paul Taylor: Yeah, look, I think fundamentally orchestration beats handoff every day of the week, right?
[00:06:12] Paul Taylor: And I think alignment isn’t about meetings, it’s really about overlapping roles. So it’s finding those areas where there’s like a coalescence between the different stages that a customer is going through in their journey. I’d encourage people to just stop thinking about handoffs and start thinking about orchestration.
[00:06:29] Paul Taylor: You’ve got, obviously, various different parts of marketing that play into that, that help that kind of orchestration or that coming together happen. Your product marketing should lead into very clear enablement, as an example. Your product marketing should feed very clearly into a customer marketing motion as well.
[00:06:46] Paul Taylor: And all of those things, certainly enablement and the customer marketing piece, they all traverse into the sales side and the customer success side that typically sits in different parts of the organization outside of marketing. And I just think those shared plays really always beat those isolated tactics that I think a lot of people play with today.
[00:07:04] Paul Taylor: It’s a case of agreeing on roles before you get into any of these things and understanding what the revenue group, if they are separated from sales, are really trying to achieve. Are they focused on net new logo, or are they focused on upsell?
[00:07:16] Paul Taylor: Do you have a churn problem? If you have a churn problem, you’ve got a very different marketing motion to going off and winning net new logos and net new pipeline. And I think fundamentally that orchestration and that kind of coalescence, the overlapping of roles, reduces waste.
[00:07:32] Paul Taylor: And in my experience, it does increase win rates and can start to help fix any concerns you’ve got in there in terms of churn rates and things like that. And I think fundamentally, I guess just making sure that you’ve got this understanding and this belief that revenue growth, if that’s what you’re trying to achieve, is a relay race. And you’re not ever gonna win a relay, if you think about sport, by running your sort of first leg fast and then dropping the baton somewhere around the track. So it’s really a case of trying to foster that environment, which very often starts with the leadership.
[00:08:04] Steve MacDonald: So that’s the next phase here is what do we do? How do we foster this kind of environment? And it’s interesting because you’ve played a role in all these different departments, so you’ve seen from every perspective what each team member thinks they should be doing, thinks that the other guy isn’t doing well. We point fingers really quickly and easily. Like having played all the roles on the team, how do we orchestrate—like you started out by, it’s gotta start out at the top.
[00:08:38] Steve MacDonald: What are the top two or three things that we need to be thinking about, knowing to really orchestrate a true team effort?
[00:08:45] Paul Taylor: Yeah, look, revenue culture really starts at the top. I think if a CEO or somebody in a GMC, somebody at the top of the business, is treating marketing like a cost center, then I think that conversion is always gonna lag.
[00:08:56] Paul Taylor: And I think that spirit or that culture is always gonna be there in terms of people just infighting. CEOs have a role to set the culture, really, within a company. If marketing and sales are reporting separate numbers, as very often they do, I would say that you’ve already lost the battle.
[00:09:12] Paul Taylor: I think the best CEOs demand one revenue story, which in my mind is one number. And then they show that up in pipeline reviews. And I think that then informs everyone that actually conversion isn’t a sales problem, isn’t a marketing problem, it’s just a business problem to solve. If there’s something in there in that funnel that’s not pulling through, really,
[00:09:31] Paul Taylor: CEOs should really sponsor cross-functional operating teams and operating rhythms and operating reporting. I think shared dashboards that everyone can have access to just reduce political friction and kind of reduce people worrying about what’s being spoken about on the other side.
[00:09:49] Paul Taylor: And I think these exec reviews that very often happen on a weekly or monthly or quarterly basis should include pretty deep deal reviews. If an opportunity did not progress, then why? What is it? Is it a product gap? Is it a competitive differentiation problem? Is it that somebody didn’t follow up appropriately?
[00:10:08] Paul Taylor: Do you have a pricing problem? And then really build out, I guess, a repeatable process around those sorts of reviews and make sure that somebody’s actually on the hook to come back with delivering the full story on why something hasn’t worked out.
[00:10:22] Paul Taylor: I think it really is instilling that culture at the top and having some dual reporting and dual understanding in terms of what people are focused on. I’ve been in roles in the past where you’ll bring these things together, and it’s then pretty apparent that actually one party’s going this way and the other one’s going that way.
[00:10:36] Paul Taylor: And it’s no wonder that we’re not coming together and coalescing on the actual sort of thing that’s important for the company.
[00:10:42] Steve MacDonald: So those kinds of review sessions are not new news, but a lot of times it’s a marketing VP or manager sitting with their counterpart in sales, and you’re just going through the list. But it’s not at a senior level like you’re talking about.
[00:11:04] Steve MacDonald: So the diagnosis that comes out of that, right, and then therefore what the underlying symptoms are, and so therefore what the diagnosis is, doesn’t have a leadership perspective on it. And so you started out, you went from it has to have leadership culture focus at the beginning, and you went right into these reviews.
[00:11:23] Steve MacDonald: But if the reviews aren’t done in the right way, we can check the box that we have a deal review process, but how we do that deal review process, right, I’m just taking away, I’m just thinking as you’re talking here, it has to be done in the right way with the right players in the right team.
[00:11:39] Paul Taylor: It does, and you can have reviews on different levels, right? I’m not suggesting for a minute that this all sits at the top of the tree, right? There’s always gonna be connection points between teams at various different levels, more tactical plays as you go further down the organization versus some of the strategy that naturally sits a little bit further up.
[00:11:58] Paul Taylor: But fundamentally, you need to make sure that everyone is pointing in the right direction and that a culture isn’t being fostered where it can very quickly and easily get into a finger-pointing exercise. So I think it does require ownership. And to be frank, if your top level of management aren’t focusing on things like churn and net new logo acquisition and pipeline and demand, then you’re not really doing your job.
[00:12:24] Paul Taylor: If you sit around those C-suite levels within an organization, there is a need for ownership. And yes, it does sit across different levels, but fundamentally, culture gets set pretty high up and needs to be pushed down, I think.
[00:12:36] Steve MacDonald: So there’s a dynamic to lay on top of all of this, which is—very rarely do we go into the board meeting and have somebody say, “Talk to me about the long-term brand building that you are doing to see this in the marketplace.” It’s “Hey, how are we doing on this quarter’s quota? What is next quarter looking like?” So this short-term versus long-term is actually the number three challenge that B2B C-suite executives talk about, and it’s one of the number one sources of misalignment, right? Especially between marketing and sales—that’s the biggest friction, often inside of the organization. So how do we address short-term versus long-term objectives that can move us apart in alignment versus bring us together?
[00:13:19] Paul Taylor: Yeah.
[00:13:20] Paul Taylor: Yeah, you said it’s top three. In my experience, it’s well up there as top two. But before we get to that sort of short-term, long-term piece, I think there’s also a conversation to be had around the fact that you can’t market your way out of weak product or team fit. I think it is about having the right product at the right time and the right people to deliver it. And if you don’t have the right product and the right people, then really you are dead in the water.
[00:13:44] Paul Taylor: And I just think the buyers and customers can see straight through promises, and certainly if you’re promoting old assets and things like that, people can see through it very quickly.
[00:13:50] Paul Taylor: And I think that really matters because I think the biggest challenge really around short-term targets versus long-term brand is that fundamentally, a lot of pressure comes down onto CMOs to deliver pipeline. And you can understand why, right? You might have a board group that’s very focused on a certain level of percentage growth.
[00:14:08] Paul Taylor: And if you’re not filling probably somewhere in, on average, between three and five X in terms of pipeline versus what you need to close, then there is gonna be a natural pressure that gets built. However, if you over-pivot and if you over-focus on kind of short-term demand goals, all that ends up happening is that your long-term brand starts to suffer. And it’s your long-term brand that then starts to impact your churn rates, and it’s your churn rates that then potentially get to a point where you can’t fill the bucket quick enough from a demand perspective.
[00:14:35] Paul Taylor: So the whole thing just becomes a very complicated ball of wool that you can’t pull apart and understand what’s going on. My belief—and I posted something earlier today on this, actually—is that many people talk about growth, and I think that growth can sometimes risk being self-serving if it’s not actually about serving customers with something that they need.
[00:15:00] Paul Taylor: And I think if you are not serving customers with things that they need tangibly—which sit way outside of any growth kind of goals that you’ve got as a company—you end up fueling this trust epidemic, which is out there right now, obviously with the use of AI and things like that.
[00:15:13] Paul Taylor: And I think sometimes actually maintaining your business or doing other things for those customers over a period of time should be good enough. This kind of endless, ceaseless chase down for growth—often at the expense of others—I think is part of a kind of building problem that I think is starting to damage some people’s brands.
[00:15:32] Paul Taylor: And I think that the unfortunate truth is every short-term cut—and we’ve all taken them—but every short-term cut that you make in order to hit a quarter or to hit a certain margin or something like that, it’s just gonna end up showing up in churn at some point in the next one, two, three years.
[00:15:48] Paul Taylor: And I think there needs to be more education around that, I think again, within leadership and within kind of the roles that sit there defining budgets and things. So really, your CEO–CFO kind of partnerships are really important so they understand what you’re doing, how that’s gonna actually help—not necessarily in-year but over multiple years—and build that spirit that actually you’re trying to build something not just for today but for the future.
[00:16:07] Paul Taylor: And I guess linked to that, in SaaS, there’s a lot of short-term thinking because of the way that people are compensated as well. That doesn’t help. So yeah, it’s a complicated one, that.
[00:16:22] Steve MacDonald: So you threw out some really important concepts there that I want to dive into a little bit more. This thing called the trust epidemic that you talked about— all you gotta do is go to the most recent LinkedIn Edelman Trust Barometer, and of 32,000 respondents worldwide, 61% think us as business leaders are being intentionally misleading.
[00:16:43] Steve MacDonald: Intentionally misleading. That’s like crazy, right? One of the things that we have to do is we have to build trust, and typically that’s been a role of building the brand, right? But every interaction—whether it’s with a salesperson, a customer service representative, right—anywhere, any interaction, coming to our website—all helps build that, right?
[00:17:02] Steve MacDonald: And this has led to the point where self-service buyer journey—where they’re waiting longer and longer and longer to want to talk to us. And when they do, they already have their top picks already in their own mind, right? This is one of the biggest issues that we have.
[00:17:19] Steve MacDonald: And you said—and you focused on what a lot of C-suite executives are saying and the big consulting firms—is that if we stay true and focused on the problems of our customers, and we know those problems better than our competition, that’s where we win.
[00:17:40] Steve MacDonald: That’s where they think we get it and we get them, right? That transcends things like product—where ChatGPT is writing code these days. We’re not gonna put a foundation of long-term differentiation on our companies based on product feature. It’s not gonna happen anymore, right?
[00:18:00] Steve MacDonald: So how do we, in this trust epidemic world, where we know the key is understanding our customers in fundamental ways deeper than we ever have needed to before?
[00:18:13] Steve MacDonald: What does that mean for us? What does that mean for getting to more conversion? What does that mean for, fundamentally, what do we have to do differently these days?
[00:18:24] Paul Taylor: Yeah, again, a hard one, and one that I think is changing almost on a week-by-week basis at the moment with the advent of new technology.
[00:18:32] Paul Taylor: You just mentioned the fact that OpenAI—you can now build agents, right? That was a release that came out a week or two ago. It’s gonna completely disrupt a lot of those low-code, no-code tools that sit in the space today. And it’s gonna further democratize the way that people can start to build things. And companies might sit there and go, we need some governance and framework and structure around the use of these tools. But when you’ve got these tools in the hands of everyday humans, actually, it’s much more about educating humans on what’s right and wrong within those tools, and actually helping them through that kind of learning curve so that they can actually use those tools for benefit—
[00:19:00] Paul Taylor: —both for themselves, but also within the workplace. So there’s a whole piece there that might be an interesting future podcast for you, ’cause I think it’s one that everyone’s grappling with. But for me, there’s that kind of old adage that goes, you should walk what you talk.
[00:19:23] Paul Taylor: You wouldn’t think it would be that difficult for you to be able to embody your brand values. I think, very often, brand values get stamped on the wall and forgotten about. And I actually think kind of cultural values or brand values are much more about the way that you foster an environment than words that you have on your website or on a wall in an office somewhere.
[00:19:43] Paul Taylor: And then there’s that kind of whole piece—and just circling back around to the technology bit—I think technology, when you’re using it, should really simplify things for you and not complicate things further for both you and your customer. Like an easy example is if a rep needs seven tabs open to prep for a call,
[00:20:00] Paul Taylor: then the buyer’s gonna feel that friction. Just as if you are needing to put together multiple different marketing tactics and plays in order to bring all of these journeys together, they’re gonna feel that friction as well. There’s a lot of tools out there that will use AI to kind of surface the right time, in the right context, the right intent for when to engage with people.
[00:20:19] Paul Taylor: But I think it’s really important not to automate that first touch into complete oblivion. You still wanna win that trust from someone. And so I think the risk really is that you over-automate, and that then starts to erode trust—whether that’s through poorly written content through AI or LLM tools,
[00:20:36] Paul Taylor: or indeed any other tools that kind of sit in that space. Like, we’ve all been on the receiving end of a bizarre kind of automated SDR outreach, right? That stuff just turns people off. And I think—and again, maybe another good idea for a future podcast—is like looking at that SDR playbook.
[00:20:51] Paul Taylor: Like, it would strike me that the SDR playbook is broken. Like an SDR that thinks that they can like a post, comment on a post, and then immediately send you a connection request offering you a hundred-dollar gift card in order to sell you something, right, is just bonkers. It’s just not how things work.
[00:21:08] Paul Taylor: But I think, you know, where you can invest in tech that sharpens timing and relevance of what you’re trying to do—and where you can be authentic without this fascination around volume, like volume of assets—then I think that really matters. And as we said before, I think with this concern around trust, I think buyers can see through some of the hype and some of the kind of content and things that have been pumped out into the environment.
[00:21:32] Paul Taylor: And I think that technology layer and those tools that people have now got access to across the stack should really enable credibility, and not mask the weak fundamentals that might sit underneath it. A whole host of different ideas in there, but I think it is something that’s changing every day.
[00:21:49] Paul Taylor: Like, I think you could have 10–20 years’ experience in demand or pipeline generation, and you’re probably having to relearn the entire thing all over again given that the funnel’s just been turned on its head over the last couple of quarters. So there’s a lot of people out there that are grappling with it.
[00:22:04] Steve MacDonald: So the one thing that has not changed in the mind of at least B2B C-suite executives is that this is a fundamental—we’re in a relationship-based business. That hasn’t changed. How we form relationships, how we prove trust, how we educate, how we change perceptions, right? How we carve out a space for us and differentiate ourselves—that’s changed quite a bit. But the way the game is played is being changed, but the game hasn’t changed itself.
[00:22:29] Steve MacDonald: So, just would love your perspective on this. I talk to a lot of executives, and they say, “I don’t wanna sound old school, Steve, but it’s more important than ever that we actually have conversations with our customers,” and that we can’t just rely on the data, right? Intent data—every day we have more data in our tech stack than we have ever had, and it’s very easy to hide behind all that data and say, we know exactly what’s going on.
[00:23:00] Steve MacDonald: We’ve got conversations with prospects going on all the time—the sales department, we’ve got conversations going on with customers in customer success all the time. We’re talking with them, we know what’s going on. But what I am hearing more and more is we need to have deep, ongoing, meaningful conversations with customers that are outside of a sales environment—where there is no shield up, where we’re talking just about them and their needs in total.
[00:23:39] Steve MacDonald: What are their challenges to creating success, even if it’s outside of the ones directly that we’re addressing, like vendors talk about, partners talk about this, right? So I just wanted to get your thoughts on that.
[00:23:53] Paul Taylor: Yeah, look, I don’t disagree. Is it old school? I don’t know. Like, you’ve always needed proximity to customers.
[00:24:00] Paul Taylor: Like again, you can use some great tools and you can build some great things in various different technology platforms that will give you really clear steer around the health of an account, right? And it will do a really good job at codifying it—red, amber, green, right? But until you actually get in front of somebody—and that’s not necessarily in a formal meeting—you don’t really understand the true story.
[00:24:22] Paul Taylor: Some of the best conversations I’ve had are complete ad hoc—bumping into a couple of customers at a conference and going, “Hey, I’m free. Do you wanna go out and get some dinner later?”—and just having a wide-ranging conversation between life, the universe, and work. And then you start to get under the surface of,
[00:24:40] Paul Taylor: “Okay, that didn’t land so well with you. Okay, interesting. What do you think about this kind of direction that we’re heading in? Oh, okay, you like that? Great.” And actually getting under the skin of how they’re feeling. When I started my career back in the late nineties—which gives my age away a little bit—but we used to have platinum support teams that were there to
[00:25:00] Paul Taylor: kind of relationship-manage the largest and the most important strategic accounts. And I think, yeah, maybe somewhere in the middle we got lost a little bit in terms of expecting people to self-support and building digital customer experience campaigns and all of these different smart things that people have done over the last couple of, like maybe a few years.
[00:25:18] Paul Taylor: But I don’t think anything is ever gonna take away from needing to get to know somebody. If they matter to you, then they should really matter to you—and you’re only gonna do that by building a human connection, really. So yeah, maybe a bit old school, but it’s a funny space. I think there’s a lot of technology out there,
[00:25:34] Paul Taylor: there’s a lot of business models that are getting disrupted at the moment. And I think if you’re losing sight of the fact that it’s the customer that matters beyond anything else, then you’re already in a bit of a losing game, to be honest.
[00:25:46] Steve MacDonald: So I think we could have a whole podcast just on that, but I wanna ask you—I think we have outlined five podcasts that we have to have as follow-up from this.
[00:25:55] Steve MacDonald: But here’s the most important question—’cause we’ve gone over so much here and our poor human brains, we can only retain about two or three things at a time. So for the peer community—your peer community, C-suite executives that are gonna be tuning into this podcast—what is the single most important thing that you want them to take away from our conversation?
[00:26:16] Paul Taylor: Wow. Okay. Um, let’s go with—I think this concept of revenue isn’t a marketing number, it isn’t a sales number, it’s a company’s number, right? And I think the winners aren’t necessarily those that are generating the most leads; they’re the ones that are converting the right ones
[00:26:32] Paul Taylor: into lasting customers. And I think if people can align around that concept, then really the growth takes care of itself. And I think that’s probably the fundamental thing to leave behind for me.
[00:26:44] Steve MacDonald: Here’s what I do know—people are gonna have questions. Is it appropriate that I give out a link to your LinkedIn profile and people can find you—more than happy?
[00:26:51] Steve MacDonald: Ask questions, more.
[00:26:52] Paul Taylor: Yeah, more than happy.
[00:26:54] Steve MacDonald: Fantastic. The mission on this podcast is to bring different perspectives, different insights from different experiences and different departments and different industries—but all B2B, ABM-focused companies. And if we can all bring these perspectives together, that is the rising tide that lifts all boats, right?
[00:27:14] Steve MacDonald: And I just thought you were an amazing part of that rising tide today. So Paul, thank you very much for coming onto the podcast, and we’d love to have you back on at some point.
[00:27:22] Paul Taylor: Thank you. I’m very grateful. I’d love to.