Episode #206:
Julian Kulkarni, Former SVP and CMO at Reapit, CEO at Tangible Consulting, and Senior Adviser at Accel-KKR, explores the hidden challenge of trust in B2B sales. He explains why companies must first establish internal alignment and credibility. Julian shares data showing 61% of global buyers worry that leaders mislead them. He then outlines how internal trust fuels long‑term customer relationships and sustainable growth.
“Do not forget the importance of human interaction and human trust, both inside your business and outside it, at every level. Continue to nurture it and build upon it. Look yourself in the mirror, ask people what they honestly think of you and your work, take their feedback seriously, and act on it. That’s how you win.” – Julian Kulkarni
When leaders actively build trust within their teams, they create a culture where promises are kept and values are lived daily, not just framed in the boardroom. Julian explains how this internal foundation directly fuels long-term customer relationships and sustainable growth. Trust is not just a soft value. It is a strategic advantage that must be practiced every day.
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[Transcript]
[00:00:05] Steve MacDonald: Welcome everyone to the C‑Suite Sales and Marketing Perspectives podcast. I’m Steve MacDonald, your host, and today we’ve got a very special guest, Julian Kulkarni. Julian, you’re a six‑time B2B CMO and have consulted with over 15 companies in that capacity. You’ve lived in six countries and managed teams in over 40. We have a world of experience to draw on, because today we’re unpacking the number one hidden challenge for B2B sellers: trust. It’s the foundation of relationships in our relationship‑based business. Before we dive in, Julian, please expand on your background.
[00:01:06] Julian Kulkarni: Thanks, Steve—you introduced me well. I’ve spent my career primarily in B2B SaaS. My first company was literally called SaaS back in the day. I’ve worked in global marketing at large software firms where I’ve had impact, and I’ve founded a couple of companies myself. I’ve enjoyed living in different countries and tackling diverse problems: building startups from scratch, re‑engineering existing organizations, and integrating post‑merger acquisitions.
[00:01:51] Julian Kulkarni: Personally, when I’m not a CMO or advisor, I spend time with my twin daughters, now 22, and enjoy power boating and various hobbies—trying to keep fit with varying success. My career threads and personal life remind me I’m always learning—from my kids, from the companies I work with, from everyone.
[00:02:20] Steve MacDonald: No matter the age, we keep learning. Let’s establish the groundwork on trust. Last year’s Edelman LinkedIn Trust Barometer surveyed over 32,000 respondents worldwide and found 61 percent worry business leaders are intentionally misleading. That’s staggering. Our brands are trust marks—Gartner and Forrester call us trusted advisors. Why did you emphasize building and maintaining internal trust first?
[00:03:53] Julian Kulkarni: Great question. I believe you must look internally first. Trust isn’t just a C‑Suite value; it’s across the entire organization. Whether it’s finance ensuring bills are paid, or customer support resolving complaints, it’s about trusting each other to do the right thing. When people trust the company and understand why they’re there, that’s how trust is built—through real experiences, not just presentations.
[00:04:42] Steve MacDonald: Trust drives consistent service delivery. You also highlighted alignment and misalignment in the C‑Suite. How do trust and alignment relate?
[00:05:05] Julian Kulkarni: Alignment means everyone focuses on the same objectives and values. Trust goes deeper—it’s believing in the direction and purpose. That belief must permeate down the organization. Leaders and their teams must trust each other, feel heard and aligned. Trust can’t be built with a PowerPoint; it grows from genuine conversations and everyday interactions.
[00:06:06] Steve MacDonald: You mentioned informal conversations—coffee chats, water‑cooler talk—uncover true issues. I host an HR and talent podcast, and a CPO with a PhD demonstrated that employee engagement directly boosts customer engagement and business growth. He proved that employees need a voice and trust in leadership—something you can’t just mandate.
[00:06:50] Steve MacDonald: If you don’t direct it, there will be a company culture. From what I’m hearing, you have to really work on that company culture to build internal trust—is that a good takeaway?
[00:07:02] Julian Kulkarni: You have to work on it all the time. People evolve every day, so companies do too. Having a set of values is a good data point, depending on how they’re created. But beyond that, it’s what people say to their friends or partners—at home, at the pub—that shows you what they really think. If those sentiments match what they express at work, you’ve achieved alignment and a healthy level of trust.
[00:07:41] Steve MacDonald: Many factors impact trust—mergers and acquisitions, product launches, new service lines. They can dramatically change how a company operates. How do events like M&A affect trust?
[00:08:12] Julian Kulkarni: Mergers and acquisitions are a great example. You might combine three, four, or even eight companies—each with its own culture, leaders, values, and startup‑mindset mission. Suddenly you’re “smashed” together, and you must rebuild trust by taking the best from each and learning from one another. Done right, you create something greater than the sum of its parts. Done poorly, you damage morale, excitement, and existing trust.
[00:09:02] Steve MacDonald: You’ve established internal trust as the foundation—it influences employee experience, customer experience, and in our world CX is king. Let’s transition to external trust. B2B buyers today wait longer to engage with us and make more decisions independently, driven by a lack of trust. They seek unbiased information and fear being misled. How do you build external trust in a relationship‑based B2B world?
[00:10:02] Julian Kulkarni: Relationships are key. While companies aim to sell, the ultimate goal is long‑term relationships. Prospects might not buy now, but they’ll remember who offered genuine insight versus a sales pitch. Become a trusted advisor—they’ll call you as a sounding board for market trends and strategy, not just to buy your software. Face‑to‑face interactions—handshakes, in‑person meetings—are making a comeback, even amid an AI revolution. Those personal connections transcend business cycles and last a lifetime.
[00:11:23] Steve MacDonald: We had a CPO on who showed customer service drove five times more new revenue growth than average sales efforts—customers called just to spitball ideas because of trust. Does that resonate?
[00:11:43] Julian Kulkarni: Absolutely. I once worked in recruitment where candidates often get dropped after placement. One candidate, who trusted her recruiter, asked for coaching for a non‑affiliated role. That candidate became a CIO, then four weeks into that role called for help building her team—without any obligation. That trust turned into lucrative business and lifelong loyalty.
[00:13:14] Steve MacDonald: Fantastic story. You mentioned AI earlier—what role does it play in trust building?
[00:13:35] Julian Kulkarni: AI is massive: it supercharges efficiency, insight, and routine tasks, giving marketers a playground of possibilities. But it doesn’t replace human interaction. Some say they’ll let AI run their department—but then what will they do with their extra time? Use it for customer visits, team conversations, or working in customer support to understand real pain points. AI is a super enabler, but people remain people. Use AI better than anyone else, and then spend the time building trust and listening.
[00:15:08] Steve MacDonald: So two things I love about what you said there. First, we all know AI is going to dramatically change how we function in business—that’s not what we’re talking about here. Second, we all have about 150 percent of what we want to get done on our to‑do list every single day.
[00:15:24] Steve MacDonald: If AI can make us more proactive—the point you made—what do we do with that time? In a day and age of technology, more data coming our way, more ability to understand our buyers through that data, your recommendation (which I agree with) was: get out there and talk to people. Interact.
[00:15:50] Steve MacDonald: Here’s my question: in a world where we have more data than ever to help us understand our customers and buyers, that still doesn’t replace what you just talked about—getting out and actually talking to customers. Why did you use that analogy? You could have said, “Dig deeper into the analysis. Spend more time on the data.” But you didn’t. Why not?
[00:16:00] Julian Kulkarni: Because you have to do that anyway—digging into the data is table stakes. The real question is how you differentiate yourself. There’s a lot you can do with AI, and it’s not mystical; it improves efficiency and insight. But people still buy from people, and people buy from people they trust. So to me, the key is building trust through conversations.
[00:16:24] Julian Kulkarni: AI can be your ears and eyes—it can listen at scale and feed that intelligence back into your processes. But nothing replaces genuine dialogue. You can analyze thousands of calls and web chats, but how do you make yourself exceptional? How do you earn the number‑one position in your B2B market? You invest in relationships.
[00:16:55] Steve MacDonald: It’s interesting—there’s a big trend toward “human in the loop” in AI, focused on oversight and validation of automated outputs. What you’re describing is “human in the loop” as ongoing conversations that provide context for AI insights.
[00:17:00] Julian Kulkarni: Exactly. Human in the loop works before, during, and after the AI process. It’s not just sales teams making calls; it’s everyone in the company engaging customers. I’ve seen CFOs manning trade‑show booths, asking visitors questions. They loved the experience and came away with insights that shaped finance strategy.
[00:17:27] Steve MacDonald: Many CMOs make customer calls when they start a new role—15 or 20 coffees or calls—and then stop because other priorities fill that time. What you’re saying is that this must be continuous.
[00:17:50] Julian Kulkarni: Absolutely. Markets evolve constantly; customer needs and pressures change daily. You need real‑time understanding and feedback. If your to‑do list is 150 percent full, you must prioritize this activity. In some companies, we blocked out a couple of hours every week—Friday afternoon or Wednesday morning—when, barring emergencies, everyone picked up the phone or met a customer. That time is sacrosanct.
[00:18:12] Steve MacDonald: That ties into what you said: if AI frees up time, use it for customer and frontline engagement.
[00:18:37] Julian Kulkarni: Exactly. If you’re a seller, fine—make your calls. But if you’re in another function—support, product, marketing—go spend a day in customer support, see real‑world issues. Empathy for frontline colleagues builds a deeper understanding of customer pain points, influencing roadmap and service design.
[00:19:01] Steve MacDonald: You just answered the question—tying conversations to building trust. Those dialogues build immense trust, especially since they focus on the customer, not you.
[00:19:13] Julian Kulkarni: And let me flip it: I remember bad experiences more than good ones. As a graduate, I interviewed at several firms—some treated me well but didn’t hire me; I still remember them positively. Others treated me poorly—I remember them too, negatively, decades later. When you let someone down, do it gracefully, and you’ll be remembered for it.
[00:19:50] Steve MacDonald: That’s a powerful insight. You mentioned AI coming on steroids—how do you integrate it into this human‑centric process?
[00:20:04] Julian Kulkarni: Use AI to handle routine analysis and scale listening, but allocate the human time you free up to conversations. If AI saves you hours, spend those hours out with customers or in customer support. It works hand in hand. AI is an enabler; humans build the trust.
[00:20:35] Julian Kulkarni: For example, in one company we had every function—finance, HR, product—make customer calls. We learned about billing pain points and feature requests directly. Those insights shaped our service, pricing, and product roadmap more effectively than any survey.
[00:21:06] Julian Kulkarni: So yes, block out that time and make it non‑negotiable. Use AI to boost capacity, but channel your newfound time into building the relationships that create lasting trust.
[00:21:17] Steve MacDonald: You just answered the question—tying these conversations back to building trust. These dialogues build huge trust, especially when they’re not focused on you but on them. When you have these conversations, they’re not sales pitches; they’re opportunities to learn about the customer.
[00:21:45] Julian Kulkarni: And the reverse is true: I remember bad experiences more than good ones. As a graduate, I interviewed at several firms—some treated me well but didn’t hire me; I still remember those positive interactions. Others treated me poorly, and decades later I remember them for all the wrong reasons. When you let someone down, do it gracefully—and you’ll be remembered for that grace.
[00:22:24] Julian Kulkarni: Another example: I’ve been a buyer of CRM software many times. Two of the biggest vendors competed for our business. One won; the other didn’t. Both were trustworthy, but the vendor who lost handled the rejection with respect and stayed in touch. A few years later I recommended that vendor to five or six colleagues. Meanwhile, the one that handled it poorly never got another recommendation. Trust earned through gracious behavior pays dividends over time.
[00:23:29] Steve MacDonald: We tend to think of our buyers as purely professional, but they’re human. When you last bought a product, what mattered to you? How did the suppliers interact with you? What made the best experience—and how can we replicate that for our buyers?
[00:24:26] Julian Kulkarni: Also remember that the decision‑signer isn’t always the person you should focus on. That C‑level exec may sign the check, but the real power and insight often lie deeper. I’ve seen senior executives treat receptionists or junior staff disrespectfully—actions that erode trust. Treat everyone as a human being, and you’ll go a long way.
[00:25:09] Steve MacDonald: You mentioned AI and I want to circle back. We all know AI changes everything, but you recommended using AI to free up time for human interaction. How do we prioritize that?
[00:25:29] Julian Kulkarni: AI is a super‑enabler—supercharging analysis, efficiency, and insight. But it can’t replace human connections. If AI saves you hours, spend those hours talking to customers or working on the front lines—in customer support or out in the field. Empathy and real‑world understanding build trust in ways no algorithm can.
[00:26:16] Steve MacDonald: Out of all this, what’s the single most important takeaway for C‑Suite leaders?
[00:26:24] Julian Kulkarni: Never forget the importance of human interaction—inside your business and out. You can be transactional to hit quarterly targets, but long‑term success depends on trust. Invest in every conversation, every touchpoint. Ask for honest feedback and act on it, and you’ll create relationships that last a lifetime.
[00:27:03] Steve MacDonald: I know listeners will have questions. May I share a link to your LinkedIn so they can connect?
[00:27:10] Julian Kulkarni: Absolutely—more than happy! I love curiosity, conversations, and being challenged.